Interview: Lazy Susan on joining the judging panel of Drag Race Down Under vs The World; “Drag is such a stupid job – and that’s exactly why it’s wonderful.”

You’ve experienced the competition from the inside, and it was so recent that I assume you still remember what it feels like to get critiques. Did becoming a judge make you more compassionate, or did it make you realise how much you missed as a contestant?

No, I’ve been through the entire Drag Race ecosystem at this point – short of killing RuPaul and wearing her skin (laughs). I started as someone reacting to Drag Race on YouTube, sitting on a couch talking shit, which is probably the least empathetic way to watch the show. Then I went on it myself and experienced the insanity of what is basically drag boot camp. By the time I ended up on that judging panel – which is a completely surreal, interdimensional experience – all I could think about was how much work goes into every single thing you see on that stage. It takes just as much time, effort and energy to make a deliberately shocking outfit as it does to make an incredible couture look. Going through the process gives you so much compassion for what the queens have been through.

On the first day, I remember thinking, “Should I be trying to be more like Ru? More sassy? More incisive, like Law Roach or Dicko?” But I was told, “No. You’re here to bring the perspective of someone who’s actually been through it.” So I just tried to lean into that compassion. Obviously, I knew I was on television and had to say something more interesting than, “Didn’t you do well?” But every time you see an incredible, bedazzled look on the runway, all I can think is, “They had to make that in the time they had to prepare their package, then somehow pack it into a suitcase and get it here.” The amount of work and sleepless nights behind that gives you an enormous amount of respect for what they’ve accomplished.

It really is so easy to just sit on the couch and say, “Oh, that was shit.” As you said, you’re going in there knowing it’s more than that. And you’ve joked that drag is an incredibly stupid job, said with obvious affection. As a judge, how do you balance rewarding technical excellence with celebrating the joyful absurdity that made you fall in love with drag in the first place?

Yeah, I think, particularly as the drag queen on the panel, my catnip is people who come down that runway with a really clear sense of self and a clearly executed concept. Technical proficiency is definitely something I consider, but for me it’s more about seeing a fun, interesting idea brought to life. That’s what’s exciting about drag. It isn’t about having designer outfits. Drag is an imitation, or a homage, to that incredible world of designers, craftsmanship and fabrication – but it’s really about making do with what you have and pulling it off as though it’s something extraordinary. I almost give more credit to someone who convinces you they’re wearing the most incredible gown in the world, only for you to look closer and realise it’s made of bottle caps or whatever. That’s real drag to me – when they completely sell you the fantasy they’re creating.

I feel like comedy queens often work twice as hard to be taken seriously as the fashion queens. Do you think that’s changing? Or is there an unconscious bias that glamour somehow equals excellence?

To be fair, I really feel for the Glamazon girls because they can’t have a bad day. One of the great joys of being a sloppy comedy bitch is that I can rock up to a gig in the ugliest Kmart Anko dress imaginable and nobody’s going to flinch. They’ll just be like, “Oh, don’t you look lovely? Now let’s get on with it.”

I think it’s telling that, even though they’re glamorous, queens like Trixie and Katya are among the most famous drag queens in the world, and they don’t feel the need to always look like pristine supermodels. There’s a lot of pressure that comes with trying to present perfection.

That said, I really appreciate it because I love seeing the things you can’t do yourself in other people. When someone has that completely flawless level of fantasy, it’s breathtaking. It feels almost otherworldly – really ethereal.

Counterbalancing that, I feel like Australia has developed this reputation for producing queens who are a little bit scrappier and a little bit more chaotic. Do you think that’s a stereotype? Or is there genuinely something distinctly Australian about our drag scene?

It’s an interesting one. We’re also the country that produced Courtney Act, so it’s wild to me that two things can be true at once. Australia has this really rich history of producing some of the most beautiful showgirl queens in the world. Sydney is full of them – Courtney, Vanity – we’ve got them. We had Max Drag Queen last season, and she’s just this ethereal beauty. What’s distinct, though, is that even those girls will crack a tinny and drink it out of a shoe. That’s Australian drag. Even at its most polished and glamorous, it never lets that get in the way of having a good time. We’re interested in the party, and culturally, Australians just don’t take themselves too seriously.

There’s something about trying to be beautiful and trying to be perfect that we find inherently funny because it’s all a bit ridiculous. Playing high status is something Australian drag just can’t take completely seriously, and I think that’s what gives it its unique flavour.\

As the reigning Down Under winner, sitting there with Michelle Visage, do you ever feel like you were representing Australian drag itself, and not just your own taste?

Absolutely. I felt like my job – and Rhys’s job in particular – was to translate some of the things that might’ve been missed in the Down Under queens’ presentations, and hopefully point out things in the international queens that hadn’t necessarily been celebrated but were distinctly in keeping with the Australian sensibility. I think the queens representing the world did an amazing job of leaning into that irreverent, quintessentially Down Under attitude. Those were the moments where we got to say, “Yes, that’s it.” You’re delivering absolute shit-c**t at the highest possible standard.

And without spoiling anything, was there a moment where a queen completely shattered your expectations of who they were based on their original season?

Absolutely. Without being too basic, I honestly felt like it was happening every episode. There was always someone stepping out from the pack and saying, “Look at me! This is something I can do. Did you know?” There’s a real excitement that comes from seeing these queens return because it’s this bizarre version of the show. It’s your next chance, so it means a great deal, but at the same time there’s a bit more room to have fun and be silly.

One of the great things Michelle unlocked in us during Season 4, and in the queens this season, is that she’s so silly. She loves having fun, and she lets you know she’s there to support and appreciate you. I think that’s a little different from the more “go, go, go” competition energy of the American version, which can feel quite stern and “get in line.” This felt much more like summer camp vibes, and I think that gave everyone permission to show a different side of themselves.

Rhys was saying that one of their main objectives was to make Michelle Visage laugh. They were saying some days it’s incredibly easy, some days it’s incredibly hard. Where do you stand on that?

Well, I do fear I’ve developed a slightly maternal relationship with Michelle, so I think I’m always trying to be her favourite child at the orphanage (laughs). It’s an interesting dynamic because she’s so locked in from day one that you really have to surprise her if you want her to genuinely think something you’ve said is funny. Rhys and I are basically just this moat of annoying gay people around her, constantly trying to crack her up. It’s a very fun energy.

And Michelle crowned you, and now you’ve been invited to help shape the next generation of queens. What does that vote of confidence mean coming from someone who’s become such an institution in drag culture?

It’s truly insane. As I said, I’ve been through the entire life cycle of a Drag Race fan. You could never have told me all those years ago, sitting on the couch eating Thai food, that I’d one day be reigning alongside Michelle on the judging panel and judging RuPaul’s makeup artist (Raven). It’s obscene. I feel like I’m living in the weirdest possible timeline – but it’s something I’m incredibly grateful to be able to do.

One of the things that people love about your drag is that it feels unmistakable Lazy Susan. Was there ever a point where you tried to fit someone else’s idea of what successful drag should look like before realising your weirdness is your superpower?

I’m really interested in learning all the different techniques of drag because I think you should try everything once. Even though I naturally skew towards comedy and silliness, I’ll always have a crack at a different style because we’re here for a long time, we’re doing a lot of gigs, and you want to experiment. Your drag persona shouldn’t be a fixed thing. Ideally, you should be able to play with all the paints and see what comes out. Unfortunately, there are certain parts of drag – like doing a cartwheel into a jump split and being a size zero – that will probably always elude me, thanks to my lack of flexibility and my inability to say no to a snack (laughs).

I feel like you have one of the most distinctive comedy brains in drag…

Oh my god, Peter, calm down (laughs).

If RuPaul announced the Lazy Susan Challenge, what would contestants have to do to win that?

They would take them into the workroom and open up a veil fluttering lightly in the breeze. It’s a mini challenge, of course, and early in the morning. The contestants would go up to this sucking void, open that thin veil, and then shriek into the void for as long as possible. And whoever the void shrieks back to is the winner.

That came to you a little too quickly…

We’ve got to the void in there. Unfortunately, we couldn’t fit the void in the Down Under set.

There’s always time. I know that you’ve said an All Stars or an All Winners season is not something you would want to do. Would anything be able to convince you to do something like that?

As you can see in the trailer, we had some amazing guest stars, including other Drag Race winners. There was something really exciting about getting to kiki with Miss Blue Hydrangea and Lawrence Chaney. It has softened me to the idea of being locked into a room with those sort of people, because I think there’s something really particular about the weird winners’ experience. You have a little bit of survivor’s guilt. You all have a weird experience going forward, and I couldn’t imagine anything worse after having just finished competed and doing it all over again. But it’s been a little while now, and I’m softening to the idea. I think I still need a bit more time to polish up the turd a bit more though (laughs).

You’ve experienced Drag Race as a contestant, a winner, and a judge. When you look back years from now, what do you hope your contribution to the franchise ends up being?

I think what I want is for queer people to be allowed to be really irreverent again. The weird thing that’s happened with Drag Race is that people take it so seriously they’ve kind of lost the camp angle. Camp isn’t just dressing up as a silly clown. It’s about appreciating things in a way that queer people have historically done so well – looking at something, recognising its absurdity, and finding enormous joy in that.

I hope, in a little way, we’re able to get back to that joie de vivre of appreciating just how ridiculous all of this is. That’s why drag is such a stupid job. There are people out there who are accountants, or working every day in coal mines, and our job is literally to put on lashes, run around, and evoke some version of Joan Crawford at a brunch spot. It’s completely absurd – and that’s exactly why it’s so wonderful.

Drag Race Down Under vs The World premieres July 24th on Stan Australia.

*Image credit: Stan Australia.