M3GAN 2.0 is hyping up its central battle of A.I. killbots as “This Bitch versus That Bitch.”
But which bitch is which? The anticipated sequel brings back the the murderous doll who captivated pop culture in 2023, and this time around M3GAN has to contend with AMELIA, a military-grade weapon and the ultimate killer infiltration spy, whose own self-awareness spells destruction for the humans that created her.
Embodying the role of AMELIA is Ukrainian actress and activist Ivanna Sakhno, who spoke with our own Peter Gray as the film releases in cinemas (read our review here) about finding the humanity of such a creation, turning to nature for inspiration on her movements, and what classic archetypes she looked to as counterparts.
One of the things I loved about AMELIA is that, on the surface, it’s so easy to describe her as a villain, but she’s really just someone trying to understand her identity. She’s trying to understand why she was designed. Was there an exploration for you regarding her internal logic or an emotional truth to ground her actions and decisions?
Totally. That was kind of the leading factor for me when I first read the script. I was just deeply moved by her and I had sadness, really, about the way that she brought into this world. Although she is very much an artificial intelligence, I think there are certain aspects of her that people can resonate with, and I can only hope that people are able to find a little bit of compassion towards her. But I also feel open to them being scared for her, equally.
Yeah, she’s the villain, but she’s doing what she’s told to do. What she’s designed to to. You can come out of this movie very much thinking that AMELIA isn’t the villain. There’s a reason behind why she’s doing what she’s doing. There’s light and shade to her. You look at female villains, and they’re just better, really. You look at the annals of history of all the women that come on screen and absolutely dominate, and we can add AMELIA to that here.
That means a great deal to hear. I’m so glad you have enjoyed the film. I really don’t take it for granted. It’s so interesting, because I think M3GAN and AMELIA are two sides of the same coin. AMELIA grows to protect herself, and both of them just have this desire to belong. It’s a very human trait.
With genre films, especially in the horror and sci-fi realm, they always so much about human nature and the wearing of a mask. Is there anything about this kind of storytelling that draws you in as an actor? And has playing AMELIA made you see the genre different as compared to a viewer?
I think I have always found the horror genre, to be fair, more interesting to be a part of as a creator than to watch (laughs). Only simply for the reason of me having a very gentle heart and being fearful of scary moments. But I think you’re absolutely right. There’s so much to learn from the genre itself. I do think it’s not an easy thing to create and do well, so Allison (Williams) definitely set a big example for me in creating something really impactful and meaningful. I watched Get Out, and I feel so lucky to have worked with both her and Toby (Oliver), who was our DP, who also worked on Get Out with Allison as the director of photography. I definitely feel extremely lucky to be a part of the world that Blumhouse and Atomic Monster have created.
Well, as an Australian, I’m going to be a bit biased with James Wan being involved, and then Gerard Johnstone from across the pond in New Zealand. All great names.
It’s so funny to me, because people obviously have their comparisons between New Zealand and Australia, but you guys are so protective of each other. The only people that are allowed to talk shit about Australia or New Zealand are Australians or New Zealanders (laughs). Either one, you will protect and you will fight.
As you were saying about watching horror films, it got me thinking about literary archetypes and how there’s something so inherently tragic about someone like AMELIA, who’s designed for war and then becomes self aware. Did you relate her story to any classic or literary archetypes as a way to develop a perspective?
Definitely part of the inspiration that came before was the beloved Metropolis, right? It’s the first depiction of A.I. in cinematic history. And I think the character of Maria was so beautifully portrayed. There’s definitely some nods to Metropolis in our film when AMELIA sits on the throne. Alphaville was something also on my watch list. Ghost in the Shell was a big one. I’m a huge fan, and have been for a very long time. So getting to placate that into AMELIA’s spirit, I really wanted that for her. Even though she is A.I., I wanted for her to exist as a ghost with a shell, not just a shell with no ghost.
Hearing those examples, it feels like so often we project our fears onto female coded bodies. I’m also thinking of Ex-Machina. With playing AMELIA, a character built for obedience who then questions her purpose, how conscious were you of how femininity is shaped or weaponised or subverted through her design? How do you choose to embody that or resist?
There’s a lot of compassion I felt towards her. I just looked at her as a child. It’s very historic, the cruelty that is targeted towards women. You look into religion and how it shaped the fear of the feminine, and it only brought me to desiring and hoping that eventually, as humanity, we can lead towards the masculine understanding that when you are able to witness and celebrate the divine femininity, that’s only when you can truly bloom as the divine masculine. That’s when the balance in the world can be restored. Right now, there is great heaviness, and it has to do with the repression of women. The world won’t be free until a woman can make a choice about her body.
It’s something that I could never really comment on, but, as a gay man, I’m also very aware of the things that have been pushed down on us. It’s probably why I can connect into the film through someone like AMELIA, because she’s being dictated to and ultimately just wants to say her own truth. It’s a great underlying notion in the film that, on the surface, is so campy and fun, but it’s got this serious tone underneath.
It’s very moving to listen to you say that. It means a great deal to me, as an actor and as a woman, I can only hope that this is something people can witness in the film. You’re not required to. I want freedom for the audience to have fun, but when someone can witness those aspects of the film that made me fall in love with it? It means a lot.
And the way that AMELIA presents herself. Did you work with movement coaches or a voice specialist in finding her rhythm? Or was it kind of built instinctively throughout the script and the backstory?
I had a wonderful team behind it. Gerard, of course, with the creation of the first M3GAN, he knew exactly what he wanted. For this, I had total trust in him, and I felt really grateful that he wanted me to just take my own place within it. He gave me total freedom in creating her. I was excited to bring my own discovery of her to him. I did so with a wonderful movement coach named Luke (Hawker), and we were able to find her breath, or lack of it, and find her movement through discovering different insects, honestly. We came closer to nature through creating AMELIA. I felt grateful that I had a very creative environment. It was a collective in bringing her to life. But speech and movement were the driving force behind being a part of this film. I can only hope I did it justice.
So interesting hearing about going to nature, because it brings in a whole conversation around nature versus nurture. Could definitely keep diving deeper, but we’ll go with a lighter question to finish off. Obviously the first film had the iconic dance moment from M3GAN, and the trailer for this utilised Britney’s “Oops…I Did it Again” in the best way possible. So, for you, if AMELIA had a favourite song, what would she play before taking someone down?
Okay, I actually have a playlist for AMELIA. Definitely in moments of going to take somebody down, AMELIA was listening to “OKAY” by JT. If you look into that, it makes sense. There’s also a song by Bad Omens called “Violence Against Nature”, and this is more connected to the opening sequence. It will make sense when you listen (laughs). I also have to say Thom Yorke was very present in the playlist. He’s very nature-based in his sounds, and distorted audio (too), especially in this track that he has called “In the Trees.” Listening to it was reminiscent of what I would feel like AMELIA would listen to when she wants to be still in her own realm.
It truly is one of those things that I find so fascinating about what I get to do, and I feel so lucky that I can talk to creatives, like yourself, to learn all about the nuances. This is such an entertaining film that people can enjoy on the surface for the action sequel it is, but when you break it down and you see what we have been talking about, it really only highlights how special a film it is. There’s all the conversation about tech and A.I. and where that’s going, but your performance here went beyond what it seems to be. It’s exciting to see an actress take on a role like this and really make it human.
The feeling is mutual. This is my favourite interview. I want to say that your ability to witness AMELIA in this film that way only reflects your depth. So, thank you.
M3GAN 2.0 is now screening in Australian theatres, before opening in the United States on June 27th.
