Director Wes Anderson has his devotees and his detractors in equal measure, but it can’t be denied that his films manage to assemble some of the most impressive ensembles put to screen. And his latest, The Phoenician Scheme (you can read our review here), is no exception.
Centering around Zsa-zsa Korda, “one of the richest men in Europe”, and his estranged daughter, Liesl, a nun-to-be, Anderson’s latest comedy is a story of a family and family business – told in the most comically bizarre manner possible.
As the film commences its theatrical run across the globe, director Anderson and cast members Benicio del Toro (Zsa-zsa), Mia Threapleton (Liesl), Scarlett Johansson, Michael Cera and Bryan Cranston spoke at a global press conference, which our own Peter Gray was invited to, to hear about the making of the film, casting specifics, and misconceptions about the director’s “calculated” style.
Wes, you talked about how so much of (The Phoenician Scheme) is based off your father-in-law and how he had lived this very mysterious, very kind of international man of mystery life. How did those two things come together to give us the story that we’ve got here?
Wes Anderson: I’ll give a quick portrait. I’ll clarify. When we had The French Dispatch coming out in Cannes, I brought up Benicio (del Toro). I had a sort of idea of a tycoon, a Euro tycoon, somebody who would’ve been in a (Michelangelo) Antonioni movie or something. I did have this idea that he was probably hurting. That he was going to be in physical distress. Somehow, that was the image of this guy who you sort of can’t kill. And he has a very expensive watch, you know, something like that. But in the course of time, it started mixing with my father-in-law, my wife’s father, who was an engineer and a businessman, and he had all these different projects and different places. And he was a kind, warm person, but very intimidating. And he had all his business in these shoeboxes.
Benicio, can you talk a little bit about how, as you’re sort of figuring out who this character might be, (were) you contributing to the script stuff that was complementary to what they were already putting on the page? I’m also wondering if there was something that helped you crack who this guy was. If there was a small thing, a gesture? Just something.
Benicio del Toro: Well, we had many conversations, you know, about the story, about the character. But a lot of it comes from Wes’s writing. You know, it’s layered, it’s full of contradictions, which makes it really yummy for an actor to try to bring to life. You know, there was elements of collaboration. I think one that I remember was that at some point, my character, Zsa-zsa Korda, is meeting his daughter for the first time, played by Mia Threapleton.
And the tutor, played by Michael Cera, is in the room. And I remember telling Wes, “Well, I’m giving a lot of private information to my daughter. And there is this stranger sitting right there. And you know, I don’t know. I feel uncomfortable as the character, giving all this information in front of a stranger. I’m telling her about my bank accounts and my everything, deals with like secrecy.” And Wes said to me, “Well, we’ll polygraph him.” And I went, “Well, okay.” And you know, very quickly, he came up with this idea of a lie detector, which is a portable pocket polygraph.
And in 1950 it was probably the size of this building, but he made it into the pocket version. And he called it the lie detector. And so that’s kinda like looking at it being in the place in the moment. The character is on the page. The backstory of the character is on the page.
This is very much an ensemble movie and there’s a really wonderful cast swirling in and out of these stories. But so much of this is really down to two characters: Zsa-zsa and Liesl. And that’s why you need a good Liesl, which brings us to Mia. Can you talk a little bit about kind of finding the right balance of less is more? Because so much of this is just small little gestures, like you’re moving your eyes one way or, you know, there’s a little discernible shrug.
Mia Threapleton: Well, I had three months from the time of finding out that I had been offered the job and from when I landed into Berlin. So, that felt like a very good amount of time to just get (my) claws deep into this as much as I can. Which included, but was not limited to, talking to a deacon of a Catholic church and going to Rome, because I had to go there for a fitting, so of course, absorbing as much Catholicism that was there. And reading the Bible, chatting with Wes about portions of the Bible.
As the four of you (Wes, Benicio, Mia and Michael) were just kind of figuring these relationships out, what did you discover in this process?
Mia Threapleton: Many things. We did a lot of blocking. I think the thing that we worked on first was scene six, which is that big opening scene where we meet all of us all together. And through that and over the course of many lunches and cups of coffee and just conversation, and much more blocking of sort of scenes that were just with the three of us. Kind of just playing around. It was play. For a lot of it, it was kind of just having fun and also talking.
Michael Cera: It was really the first time we’d all met. It was just developing a sense of our little team. Our little unit. We did rehearse and we read the scenes, but I mostly remember the lunches together and getting our little rhythm together. It was sort of the first time saying the lines out loud and trying the accent. Dipping into (the accent) slowly.
Looking at your character Michael, Bjorn, did the costume help inform the character as you were putting him together? I feel like the costumes for each of these characters, even if they’re only on screen for 5 minutes, what they’re wearing says so much about who they are and how they fit into this world. I would love it if you would talk about putting the costumes on, working with the costume designer, getting the look of these characters and how that informed how you play them.
Wes Anderson: Just don’t make Scarlett answer that, because I don’t think she liked the costume.
Scarlett Johansson: Why do you think that?
Wes Anderson: Did you like the costume?
Scarlett Johansson: Well, why do you think I didn’t like it?
Wes Anderson: I thought you said you didn’t like it.
Scarlett Johansson: Which costume? The wedding dress?
Benicio del Toro: Oh, here it comes.
Wes Anderson: No, no, the wedding dress was great. The wedding dress was great. I mean, we could do this privately. But I thought you didn’t like the outdoor one, the gingham thing, yeah. Am I wrong about that?
Mia Threapleton: I think Milena (Canonero, Costume Designer) wanted it to be open on the top.
Scarlett Johansson: There was a lot of conversation about the buttons.
Mia Threapleton: The buttons on the top.
Scarlett Johansson: I don’t care. You know I’m not really that particular.
Wes Anderson: No, no. I thought it was kind of great because I thought you were happy to wear a costume you didn’t like. And made it look good. But I remembered it wrong.
Scarlett Johansson: What’s amazing, I will say, is that when you’re on set and say, like, “Shouldn’t you be holding these shoes by a string?”, and, I don’t know why, I’ve never seen anybody hold shoes by a string, but if it’s what (Wes) imagined, then somebody came over with the most perfect string. It was unbelievable. We’re in a sand quarry in the middle of nowhere, and this perfect string came out of the prop (department).
Benicio del Toro: I have to say that watching Scarlett and Wes working was like an episode of I Love Lucy. And it was one hell of an episode. It was a lot of fun. It was a lot of fun.
Scarlett Johansson: Thank you.
Michael Cera: Wes is working with Milena Canonero, who designed the costumes for this, and they basically figured out by the time we arrive (there’s a) board on the wall of what you’re gonna look like. And it is huge. I mean, at least I would speak for myself as an actor, like putting on those clothes and seeing yourself, you get a really strong sense of how you’re gonna look in the movie and who this person is. It kinda constructs like half of the character for you, really.
And, Mia, you came up with the impromptu habit for the nun, right? The headpiece?
Mia Threapleton: This is about the napkin? Yeah.
Yeah.
Mia Threapleton: Yes. On day two of screen-test, and meeting Wes and Benicio for the first time, second day was trying things on. And Benicio had his very amazing pinstripe Zsa-zsa suit pretty sorted. I think they were just doing some tailoring. But then there was some sort of mock nun habit. A sort of white skirt thing. And some polite little plimsoll shoes and it was very nice. But the one thing that was missing was a proper veil. I think it was nurse’s caps that we had. I think it was something like that and (Wes) was like, “Nah, it’s not quite right.”
It was reaching the end of the day, and we were trying to figure out how to make this work. And I looked over to the coffee table and there was a napkin from lunch that was not stained with anything. And so I asked if anyone had any hair pins? And I quickly pinned this thing to my head. And Wes came over and, you know how he does that sort of adjustment of thing? And he did that, and took a photo of it, and then that’s apparently what happened with the veil. That’s where that came from. It was a napkin on my head (laughs).
Wes Anderson: Yeah. Well, I mean, but you put it the right way. I mean, a napkin is a piece of fabric. It’s any piece of fabric. It’s just a matter of how do you tailor it.
In terms of casting, when you and Roman Coppola are writing this, are you already thinking about who might want to cast as a character?
Wes Anderson: The part for Scarlett, we thought if she will do this, we had her in mind. Bryan (Cranston) and Tom (Hanks) together, I think the characters partly came out of imagining them as much as it was the other way around. And Benicio, obviously, too. Many of the roles we cast, I tend to send them an email as soon as we have the idea.
Bryan Cranston: Yeah, you sent me an email saying “This is coming”. I mean it did actually say that you were thinking of calling it “The Sacrament Consortium”, and I thought, “Well, this is about us (Tom and I)”, but then you quickly switched over. Tom and I arrived at the same time in Berlin, at Babelsberg, and until you see the cartoon, as Wes puts it, the full animatic film where he voices all the characters, it’s not always clear where he’s going, because the scripts are very dense in detail. There’s no skimming in a Wes Anderson/Roman Coppola script.
Since we’re talking about (yourself and Tom), can you talk about filming with Tom and how you got that rapport between the two of you?
Bryan Cranston: We’ve known each other for a long time. We’re friends, so that was the easy part. Basically, the most conversation that was going on with Tom and I on set was, “Oh my God, Benicio. What can we do for him?”
Benicio del Toro: Oh, thank you, brother.
At the press conference at Cannes, Benedict Cumberbatch had said there was something very freeing about how restricted and restrained it was. Can you talk a little bit about acting in a Wes Anderson movie and having to balance the restriction and the feeling of being free? There’s a lot of room for improvisation in a way.
Benicio del Toro: I think the approach is the same approach that I do on any movie I do. I think Wes wants you to be in the moment. He wants you to tell the truth, whatever that means. But we try as actors to do that, and I think he expects that. From there, he can block it and you have all this dialogue, but you can still bring a piece of yourself into it. And there’s room for the imagination, too. To run amok. You gotta have fun, even if you’re drowning. You gotta have fun.
Scarlett Johansson: I also think because you’re enjoying it so much. I mean, you can hear Wes enjoying it, and that’s helpful. I think it’s really motivating to try new things. Even though the blocking may be specific to what it is, and the camera moves are specifically what they need to be, and there’s sometimes a timing element to it, which I don’t want to say is restrictive, but it’s just particular. But the performance pieces, I think you’re very playful within that, because (Wes) is encouraging variety.
I’ve gotten some questions when we’ve done press for Wes’s films, and it seems that it comes across that everything is so calculated. I think the actual process of it, it doesn’t feel that way at all. Maybe, again, because the camera moves are very calculated, but I don’t think the performances are. I think if it becomes so calculated it doesn’t work, because then it feels like it’s a shtick or something.
The Phoenician Scheme is now screening in Australian theatres and the United States.
