Legendary Australian director Fred Schepisi is a busy man, already working on another film (The Olive Sisters) and a musical for next year (The Drunken Chaperone), while simultaneously promoting the release of his current film Words and Pictures, which stars Clive Owen and Juliette Binoche. A romantic comedy blended with philosophical depth, the innovative film revolves around the age-old debate of which medium is more important – words or pictures. We caught up with Fred to discuss Words and Pictures and also seek to gain a bit more insight into how he built these two opposing characters, the process of characterising them, the soundtrack, future plans, and more.
Let’s start with the genesis of the film. How did you get it from words to pictures?
Curtis Burch, who was the initiating producer on the project, was a fan of my films for some reason. He came across the script and brought it to me, thought it would be terrific material for me. You don’t often see a script that good! So I was very excited to be involved on every level. It just took five years to get it going. [laughs]
What was the reason it took so long?
A couple of reasons; not the normal ones either! One was getting the money, [Curtis] went out and raised a lot of money in Dallas, Texas; It took a long time to raise and secure it. Then we had that odd situation where we actually had the money and the two cast that we had just couldn’t get their schedules to align for 18 months, so we had to let one of them go, which was a pity. But as it turned out, it was kind of lucky because I knew that Juliette [Binoche] was a painter, but I didn’t know just how good she was. When we found out, it just made everything not just easier, but we could also get to a better place with it. Nothing happens unless it’s for a reason!
So what made you think of Clive [Owen] and Juliette [Binoche] as the two actors who could pull this off?
When you set out to cast you’ve got to cast actors who you believe have the ability to do this kind of thing, and actors who are going to help you get the money in terms of their box office draw. So that brings it down to a pretty small list. Then from that point, you decide which one you want to go for. I knew Clive a bit, I knew he was classically trained; you have films like Croupier and Children of Men and Gosford Park…that’s a different actor to the actor you usually see in the more popular fare, and I also knew he had a great love of the language so we went to him and we were right!
We then went to Juliette and she turned us down at first, so we got somebody else. But Juliette then changed her mind just as we got that somebody else. We couldn’t get that persons schedule to match up with Clive’s for 18 months so we decided to part company with that person and went back to Juliette then found out how good a painter she was! It was fantastic.
What was the idea behind characterising these two actors?
There’s a complex answer to that! I guess the thing is that the characters have to let you know that they are a lot more than what you think. So the first thing you concentrate on is how you get them expose little fissures into who the characters really are; to what’s inside the mask or the surface, what’s really going on, what are they hiding and what are they insecure about. What are the struggles that they won’t expose to the world.
There’s a very delicate balance to making sure you get those little hints across. So you gradually pull people in to thinking beyond the external into the internal and getting engaged in the character struggles. You do that by kind of plotting exactly what degree they’re letting themselves be known throughout the film and when. We did that, say for instance with the arthritis pain with Juliette’s character, every scene had different levels like pain level 5 and pain level 8…that’s what happens with arthritis. With Clive it was drunkenness; it’s very easy to portray bad drunkenness but real darknesses is really difficult, most people who had had a few drinks…if they’re talking to somebody then they are trying to hide that but there’s small slips which give them away, but then bigger slips…so it was like ‘what level of drunkenness and what level of emotional upheaval is he at.
What did it bring to the characters, having them have these different afflictions; Juliette’s character more physical, and Clive’s character more mental. How did these afflictions shape these characters?
Really what we’re trying to do is show people, say the difference is that they both have problems but she faces her problem positively; doesn’t make it any easier but she is taking a positive route to accept what she can’t do and find a way forward and through into what she can do as an artist. He’s got a similar problem in that what he really has to face is that he is not the great writer that he thought he was going to be, that he never will be – he’s an okay writer. And what he has not recognised is that he is a bloody good teacher, and that he could inspire possible future writers to appreciate great writing. That struggle, which is quite a different struggle, he goes about negatively because he is not letting go of what he wants to be. And he has to learn to let go of it and find a way forward.
And he is quite obsessive in starting this war between words and pictures whereas Juliette’s character seems like more of passive participant in this battle.
Yeah, he’s just one of those guys who likes to have a lot of fun and stick the needle in; tease people and entertain himself, which is really what he’s doing. But then he realises that this is really working for the students; energising them, and energising her. It helps him realise that he was a good teacher after all, that maybe his classroom seems like droids because he is a droid. So it makes him go through a whole lot of realisations.
I notice there’s kind of a third dimension introduced where Clive’s character can’t find the words to express something so he uses sound/music. What does sound introduce to the dichotomy between words and pictures to you?
It wasn’t in the original script, it just occurred one day that… there’s words and there’s pictures… but sometimes the only way of expressing something is with music. In his case, as he says “I’ve run out of words and I’ve run out of pictures”…what he’s done is so horrendous and he is so guilty, saying sorry is not adequate so how do you say it? Picking a very beautiful piece of music that expresses sorrow and fulfilment and joy in the one piece…there’s no other way of expressing it. It also reflects one of my attitudes…when you use music in a film you shouldn’t be using music to say this is funny or this is romantic or “feel this way right now”, you should be using it to give information that you can’t otherwise receive.
Music is used to great effect in the film, like they have that David Bowie song when Clive is throwing around the guitar. What was the idea behind the soundtrack?
It was written originally that she played classical music and he played Jazz. But that was a bit too expected. I mean like, come on! That’s a bit easy. All of us listen to different music; sometimes you listen to classic, sometimes hip hop, sometimes you want to dance. I didn’t want to let it fall into any of those cliches and conventions. So with David Bowie…I suggested that Clive play rock here or there, and he was an absolute David Bowie nut… so he suggested we use that song; it cost us a fortune!! And then you contrast it with this beautiful piece by Branford Marsalis, which is not symphony, it’s jazz…jazz written by Branford’s piano player which I heard at a concert that they gave in Melbourne, he’s a friend of mine. I heard that concert just as I was going to do Eye of the Storm and that particular piece of music expressed everything about Eye of the Storm for me. I was kind of sad that I was never able to use that piece of music so I used it in this film, it felt unexpected and right; a great contract to the Bowie thing. It had to be a rich, complex piece of music.
What was the idea behind the storyline between the two students in the film?
It’s what’s going on in schools now. It’s the same as the casting, like the headmaster is Iranian for example…I wanted to reflect the diversity that’s happening in every walk of life – which it rightfully should. I wanted that to be the case and I wanted it to be like what goes in on real schools…bullying and all. I didn’t want it to be like the handsome, young rich son football star; that stuff is bullshit. I wanted it to be a normal person who is pushing the limits and is a normal kind of kid that goes over the mark and gets embarrassed then goes even further, which is the reality of what happens a lot of the time.
So for people going to see the movie what are some of the things to keep an eye out for?
Just give yourself over. It’s not a Rom-Com. It might go into similar areas here and there but that’s not what it’s about. It’s about people really striving, it’s about what schools are like right now and what technology is doing. Don’t narrow it down to one thing, just go and have the experience.
What has resonated with you most throughout your career, words or pictures?
Well at times words are stronger, but other times pictures are stronger. Sometimes you need both, you really do. I recently had a situation where somebody wrote something, which I might do, and he had all these wonderful pictures and he was trying to say something with them but what needed to be added was what the two people were learning…how is it changing their lives, you had to have words to do that! Sometimes you use words to pull you out of one scene and into another scene; sometimes you use words at the end of one scene to throw you into the next…what really works is when you use a lot of words to tell you about shit that you aren’t seeing, like tell you about a character that you can’t see; or an event that is influencing everything that you can’t see, it won’t have the impact it should have without the words. It’s a constant judgement call.
In the film there’s many popular quotes which tip the scales in the battle between words and pictures. What are some of the quotes for you which capture this dichotomy well?
The birds on the wire like punctuation for an invisible sentence; that one is beautiful, and it’s a picture as well. And we share the picture, so you get an extra thing out of it.
What’s next for you as a director?
Well it’s supposed to be a thing called something The Olive Sisters but there’s some financial stuff going on, hopefully it happens this year. And a musical next year called The Drowsy Chaperone.
Words and Pictures is currently screening in cinemas across the country
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